There are other issues and concerns to campaign on. How exactly does the college district be affected by this new Quick Chek? I also have seen a notice posted on the front page of Hackettstown.net website in the past looking for folks to fill these positions. I would also question "whats in it for you," as in ---- for example, personally, as a starting point, if this development did not completely clear any traffic issues with that intersection, I would vote NO. I try to present facts on this thread not rumors. I feel if the foundation as well as the bones of the house are still intact, it is a historic structure. Forgetting about the quick check for a moment - why does the town let their historic buildings get to the point that all they are good for is a tear down? Has anyone brought up at these meetings the impact this would have on the underground creeks and streams under that area? If you just let them present their testimony in the most favorable light that they can, it's easier for the Board to rubber stamp it. With the building of Peachtree and some other homes in the area I think those plans have been removed from the books and is no longer an option!!!. Fact is you can’t go around telling people what they can or can’t do based on the feeling of the day, there needs to be legitimate reasons other than “because I don’t like it”. They can move mountains.....and maybe Mountain Avenue over there unlike us hill folk. Murphy USA announced Monday that it had reached an agreement to acquire the Whitehouse Station-based convenience store and gas station chain for $645 million. So they can sneak in a zoning change in the master plan review? Did anyone go to the meeting about this? Busy gas stations emit quite a bit of fumes in my opinion. It would be nice to have an option en route to many of my late night deliveries. Bonv - I agree. I believe the still have to approve changing from residential to commercial too right? Somebody tell me these 5 commissioners are volunteers. My guess is that they'll do what they did at Wawa and make a concrete barrier so a left turn is impossible. Be their backbone. He has been active in many town activities throughout his career and has given greatly of his time without expecting anything in return. LOL Darin, in your personal case, you had a huge need; protecting your investment. I don't think it will add any more traffic to the area. 2) Appearance (it'll be the prettiest QC ever) That's really a shame and consistent with the boasting coming from the property owner for several months. Yes he CURRENTLY only has one project sitting in front of a board, but he has multiple projects in town I believe correct? New Business Raze it. They ended up finding a historical carpenter (whatever that is) who made them. Thank you, Don't call the town..the town will call you..if you are worthy. They can make up to $2.00 a day! 6. APPROVAL OF MINUTES – February 20, 2018 Regularly Scheduled Meeting Those letters are not about agenda items they are more like " I want to thank the board..." or "there is an event coming up that I want to let you know about.." They are not opinions about agenda items. And is there a map of the designated Historic area? It cannot be allowed under any circumstances. Meetings Act. Sticking with the traffic issue makes sense, but the other stuff just sounds like NIMBY. So it is now up to QC to accept that requirement or go back to the DOT and argue for it. PLEASE COME OUT ON TUESDAY and show the town we DON'T want this. Picture this - traffic coming down Washington (especially during peak times) taking a left on Little, right on Mountain, hit the QC, then right out of QC onto Mtn and a quick (ha ha) left onto Water Street. Maybe someone with your skills can work with the town to fix the traffic issues in the area. I mean do they need to have been a former Mayor or perhaps Carriage Works owner, Civil War Veteran or someone "higher' up on the list of importance, or do … 3) To one of the board members point, though the 5 homes do not reflect 19th century affluent homes, they do represent the people that lived in the neighborhood at the time and over the years. So what happens to the old QuickCheck building currently standing? Frankly, my only issue with Paftinos going on the Parking Authority is timing --- could it not have waited until the process has indeed played out? Resolutions – Case #Z17-03, Stuart J. Jim L. http://www.hackettstown.net/land-development-code/ It's a Jersey thing. I'm guessing that site may not fit the current conceptual plan for the new eyesore, I mean building. slow down and watch for pedestrians and look 12 seconds ahead. Jeff Saunders (Class A)……………....……………………. Doubles fines on various highways for various offenses. Uh you're worried about a hurricane causing gas traffic? fire251 - go up and read my comment a few weeks ago.... Apparently the Union Cemetery Bridge is listed with the DEP as being on the list of NJ and/or National lists of Historic places, as per : Because l was always told that was "Leo" of Leo's Lunch and his wife was the one who worked at Leo's Lunch up until the transition of store ownership maybe 5 or 6 years ago. I've checked the town web page and all they have is a schedule of meetings...am I missing something? At the top of the hill are two gas stations already, and down Mountain Ave you have the Raceway. Sorry, but often you get what you ask for or, in this case, forget what to ask for. But, there are congestion detection systems that can be integrated with the street lights to get traffic flowing smoothly. There is zero upside for the community. @Hackresident - agreed they should've been cited but that doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the neighborhood & town to tear down for gas station. If one believes that a bunch of people showing up to a meeting with impendent uncoordinated strategies, questions, and comments, will win the day; it won't. 7. If the answer is a NO, then the project should be a NO given our town's guidelines. I'm sure the experts plan on another long, dry presentation. Having something that big, right next to and in front of the homes there (with all the 24 hour lights and noise) sounds stupid to me. Jim L et al: So....does being historic in the historic district mean you can't be torn down? I am sure this will really impact traffic - may need a light on Washington and Bells Ln, So, I put out an opinion piece on the Patch --- if anyone see's any edits, please email me --- sorry metsman, I'm still considered "new" to town compared to lifers so I don't know many good ole boys... Bug3 you looking to volunteer? 9. IMO it would be unsafe to put such a establishment that has many people going in and out in such a already busy intersection. Was there a point of law that wasn’t properly addressed? Whose taxes are going to pay for the extra police that will be needed to constantly have to respond to the incidents in the area? Case #Z16-05, Quick Chek Corp The old strip mall is further down on the other side of Applebee's. The Quick Chek proposal is in the worst possible location as we all know. That's why I mentioned that the real issue us the light at 5 corners, the main reason traffic would funnel onto Washington St. It's always good to ask the experts....how often they represent developers in general in a year and this developer specifically as well as questions germane to the topics they are experting on ---- no doubt run-off, traffic, etc. I realize they probably ran afoul of the NJDEP, but at least that is a wider and much better controlled area than what they hope to do here in one of the tightest and nastiest choke points in town. How is someone that has a vested $$$ interest, as well as a known developer who only owns property in town to build on, not to reside in, being on any committee not a conflict of interest? Yep Heidi - see my comment preceding the letter acknowledging the error in homes adjacent to the existing gas stations. Day Worker Kiosk, Soundproofing walls? creating massive traffic tie-ups worse than what already exists there is not 'improving the town', A gas station doesn't bring more traffic to an area. "Point is, it's a long hard fight, you have to really have the need and the fire in your belly to go through it, and there's an investment to be made. " Here is our Land Development Ordinance. It gives you a whole different outlook on what REALLY is going on behind the scenes.I enjoy it and I was the one that told Jum L. to step up stop complaining and volunteer. You complain about a congested intersection, yet want to bring more congestion to the area by adding a quick check?? But, if you get an attorney to cross-examine their witnesses and get them to admit the impacts to surrounding property owners on the record, then it's tougher for them to ignore. Rubbish, there is always a choice when a group of elected officials have a fiduciary responsibility to put the quality of life for the citizens as well as establishing and adhering to a common sense long term development plan for the town. Sadly most of Van's apts are not affordable to a good amount of Seniors on a very tight budget. Block 51, Lot 8 411-413 Sharp Street Or the final option is they deem them not historical and grant the rezoning. I don't think an owner has to wait for approval of a new structure. ;-). Old/New Business PS - they will be sending out notices again because their original notices were defective - listed as January 17, 2016. At least that would improve flow slightly, although most people want 46 or 183. Technically there has yet to be a First Meeting. !......This all happened at last night's Planning Board meeting. Yes, you can roll your own and as Iman and others have hinted: I believe we have some civil engineers on HL"staff" that might help. What was the outcome of the variance application? I just noticed today the 3 houses adjacent to the empty lot. Meeting Update: :-). Block 99, Lot 4 All starting at just $10 a month. From what I can see, Hackettstown's Historic District does not matter much. Interestingly, there is no mechanism for correspondence of any kind to be read into the record in the normal board proceedings. enlighten me: http://www.hackettstown.net/ Pete does not even live in this town, so why would he care how it impacts the town and it's residents? The current state of disrepair the homes may or not be currently in have no basis and were not even brought up as contributing factors on why the homes are no longer historical Also, the HHS athletic field is in close proximity of the proposed gas station. If you are coming down or going up Mountain Ave, you will have delays because of cars pulling in and out. When every other business can make a left turn on mountain ave...putting a sign at the quick chek saying no left turns will accomplish nothing. @Eperot, at one time there was a plan to build that bypass. 2019 In fact, one could almost argue that the area is already commercial but with remnants of some residential elements strewn in: the repair shops across the street, and medical and office buildings a little further up on both sides. Why fix something that doesn't need to be fixed? To beat QC on this one, IMO you will need a heck of a lot more support that this project has now. Also this will probably effect the people and their homes that are not being threatened. Me personally I think it's a bad idea I've almost gotten hit by cars turning on bells lane drivers don't pay attention now mind you i was walking. It boils down to the owner has to get something approved quickly as he did not expect the delays. from the Municipal Building to the Trinity House, 212 E. Moore Street, Luckily banking on the next meeting worked out. For the amount of money they're spending on this spot they could have purchased the Salvation Army building and be done with it, I think that is a MUCH better location. ". Of course the way the roads join each other, split up and join and or rejoin others around here is almost a nightmare, especially since you can technically use more than one title to address a particular road area in many cases. How do you propose to get the property away from him? Ave. side - catchy name like 'Carriage House Brewery' how cool would that be? Good hashtag Greg! Boy, if he joins forces with the crew who bulldozed (pun intended) their way with marginal concern at best for the local residents at the other end of town with the CVS, Hackettstown will be doomed. That's the issue, QuickChek on 517 goes in, BP at bottom of hill goes. 6. Build something in the already zoned commercial area but leave the residential area alone. I said this many times on this Forum and only one person has taken me up on it. Can be two different visions for the same property --- both can provide profit. I would think they would go down....at lease the sell-ability would go down, IMO. I have always stated we need to give our past a future. How come nobody has sent this issue to the express-times so that more people attend the meeting? The old Hess (forget what it is now) is practically on top of the brown house behind it. The town changed the ordinance to make it "mixed use" which allowed residential and retail from the original "light manufacturing". Ratables can fog the mind. In the case of my letter above, it should have been accepted when it was received and read at the next available meeting by the clerk/secretary. The town will get more money in taxes from Quik Chek and WaWa. Thank you for your service to Hackettstown, It would actually likely have preserved the clapboarding, etc. The only people profiting from this are the developer and the corporation. Sunshine Act There's also the Hackettstown Main Street Commercial Historic District starting at David's and ending at the train tracks. This is back on the agenda for March 21st at 7:30 pm. Thanks! Dadof3 you are mistaken on your facts. Hot under the collar and Jim L - Agreed, the five corners is a traffic bottleneck. I don't think you could make the traffic any worse. Type up what you want to say in a document that has a word counter (Word and Google Docs both do it) - bear in mind that they might let you go slightly over and when you're not used to public speaking, you generally speak faster, so there might be some wiggle room. " The road is zoned commercial but those homes are grandfathered in. No Historical Approved maintenance happened there. 2) There are plenty of locations to put this (Sorry QC, Wawa won that race) - there is no need at all to rezone with plenty of already properly zoned properties, especially for yet another gas station. Not sure how many more meeting it will last so if you were planning on attending and voicing your concerns/opinions I would try to make tonight's. (Class D),2nd Alternate ………………………… 2017 I've "heard" it for years but would love to see it actually happen. Looking to game? Time Saving: Manual method of nj traffic ticket payment method will consume a lot of your valuable time for collecting bill at court and standing in a long queue for nj ticket payment, etc. Historic look n feel? But the decision was based not on profit but the beliefs of the owner. I am opposed to tearing down residential homes on Washington & Mountain Ave to build yet another gas station when there are two up the street and another down the hill. all roads lead to the mayor, her political allies and close supporters. When I started my CVS venture, everyone on this site told me not to bother, don;t even go to the meeting, it was a done deal.....well 3 years later with a meeting every month CVS was final built....but with a metric S*** TON of changes due to what I as well as other residents brought to light at that "what they thought" was the final meeting When will you be back at alumni? Use your "ammo" to get the construction more "historic" looking. Common sense. The town has not done that here (rezoned the site) thus why they are before the zoning board. Let's be honest, nothing historical at that corner. So I didn't make it to any meeting! make sure to list them all by first and last name on the cc list so they all know they all got it, send your letter to each individual member of the town council and the mayor by registered mail, so they all know they all got it, they have to accept it as a communication, cc the express times and WRNJ and 101.5 fm and the Star ledger and the Morris County Record. Sorry if this was already brought up. TOWN OF HACKETTSTOWN That's what existed on the 1874 Hackettstown map around where the rear of this "project" is supposed to be going on Washington. " Hello all I am the one with the petition and willing to meet if yall would like to sign it. And also, who is the "public" THIS is where your opinion and commentary with any objections or support, including Historic has relevance. All I see lately is developers coming in and crushing what towns label as historic, not just here, but other places too. I believe that the variance hasn't been granted yet and the meeting is not until April. As advertised, action may be taken at this meeting. All Info is online on the town website and the site plan has been at town hall for almost a year now so to say there is no site plan yet is amazingly wrong. i. This So Mountain ave was decided to be a commercial zone. I'd call the Real Estate Agent cause that thing is getting built.. I guess we'll know by Monday if they're cancelling again. That's the issue. A few positives discussed thus far are as follows.The sign on the south side of the building facing Bells Lane will be removed. But, like you said, it's hard work, hard fight, and rolling your own is harder than getting a gunslinger and cost is cost, whether time or money. What's next? It's been 35 years since I lived in NJ full time. I found that interesting, that for decades he did not recommend demolition at all and now these 5 homes have no redeeming historic value. Property values and quality of life for the remaining homes in the area is simply just collateral damage to them. So, as of this moment, it is not considered correspondence. Call to Order Jim L., I understood things a little differently? I'm sure not the owner of this property, but every homeowner in Hackettstown. The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Zoning Board of Adjustment will So what's the quid pro quo from meter maid to quick chek for either in your face or behind the scenes nefarious parking naughty do's? Did they give out copies of Quick Chek's "evaluation report" on the historical significance, or as I'm sure they put it "lack" of same of these properties? that "long" fight is nearing its end. Actually relieve the traffic from Mountain Ave this way. That is how I first got involved, as a Committee member. Unless they have been completely gutted and redone, there would have to be major elements of the original design, materials and workmanship remaining, such as pocket doors, moldings, original window frames (at least on the inside). As a fairly new home owner where does this come as a member of the town you just moved into? ianimal, I'm learning all sorts of things - it's an interesting process. If they never noticed for February then yes they will for March. Not simply give the stamp of approval then state some nonsense like " we had no choice". Last night after each expert spoke the public had an opportunity to speak. The first order of business is the fate of the homes. Face it, the people were not prepared, were not galvanized, and most important, were not organized. Yet you do need to know the town rules; lucky JL seems to have a leg up on that one. Call to Order Cry me a Musconetcong. Just remember that Jim L. is a councilman of Hackettstown and he has to follow the towns idea. My point is if it isn't already historic, good luck making it so. Very sad that just because people lost the historic argument that they don't bother to listen to all of the testimony. I have a petition opposing the qickchek being but in that location if anyone is interested in signing it please let me know. I appreciate the need to have vital businesses in town to spur on economic growth, but this proposal does far more harm than good at that location. Overpriced dunkin donuts was closed along with McDonald's this morning. You can't see all angles backing out of the place and you take a gamble everytime you back out of a spot. The board could have easily found reason to vote against it and if sued could have won their case. They ignore the sign. I doubt that they will be able to meet that burden unless the Board is overly agreeable to it and really wants it to happen, which I can't imagine is the case. 5. I think. (Gross). I agree with him. Here's an update -- tried to capture it all, but with a 4 hour meeting I could have gone much longer ---- Jim L It is definitely going in front of the zoning board on January 17th at 7:30 pm - notices have been served. In this case, more gas and oil into the Musky; more liter in the neighborhood, grease pits and yuge trash cans, light pollution, noise pollution, more police to patrol this new late night and school day hang out, patrolling the empty building where one of the other three gas stations on that corner went out of business, etc. All could have deep back yards... off street parking... off street rear access. I did not mean to call you out as such, you are always very good at explaining procedures and are very good at interpretation to what happens at these meetings. I don't think it's been approved yet & hopefully it won't based on the zoning variance. Laws by their nature are a minimum set of rules that must be obeyed, morals can be more restrictive (but unless they are willing to break the law.) The condition being that they cannot be demolished until a site plan for a replacement structure is approved. I know its fun in this day and age to believe in conspiracy theories and the gov't is out to get the little guy, but try to remember these board member are unpaid volunteers who are long time residents of the town. http://www.hackettstown.net/town-roster/, Why should someone h ave to email the mayor and ask if they have any openings?..The nomination process should transparent to the public..there should be equal opportunities for all town residents to apply for openings..and lastly out of towers should only be used as a last resort. Greg I’m going off the 2018 schedule that is on the website. The regularly scheduled meeting of the Hackettstown Zoning Board of Adjustment will Let a property fall apart so a developer can come in and say it would be to costly to repair, then it can be torn down, and replaced with some new cheap building. It is also the "buffer" between Mountain Ave commercial and our finest historic district. The driver on the right yields to the driver on the left. Heard that Quickchek has proposed moving to another location again. As I recall I did a write in for the mayor's election last year as she ran unopposed. I can not find any "Historic Preservation Plan Element" at this time. Maybe all the homeowners in that vicinity can pool money to purchase it and put what they want there. I do believe our council and Mayor are working in the best interest of the town. Did Hell freeze over? I agree trekster, less than 10 ppl from the public being at last night’s meeting was disappointing. Meeting started. Quite frankly, if they are not knocked down soon, they look like they will fall down. Pretty much a guarantee with any real estate venture. The historical committee (or whatever they are called) approve random things like the weird windows on the ugly brick dr.'s office on Washington. "Jim L probably reached out to those who fit the "good ole boys" mold in this town." 1) Not just the tear down of existing homes, but the quality of life for the remaining homes on Washington, Bells Lane and Mountain Avenue goes WAY down with the lights, traffic and noise from this proposal. etc. Thank you Greg, I agree with you 100%. Uh, doesn't someone OWN the property for which these "row houses" are envisioned upon? Thank you Michele for keeping us updated. As one candidate has repeatedly stated both this morning on the radio and on this forum, to learn the accurate facts attend the meetings. And there is also the issue of again, as normal with this town....commercial encroaching on residential. correct bug3.. every 10years, and the planning board is currently reviewing the Master Plan as we speak for this year. Hopefully the moderators will let this go thru please. They will get a visit from the town for any minor infraction or imperfect anything. near Wal-Mart. He must have a big payday in store. On a really rough read, it appears that either the historic integrity of the building must be maintained OR replacements must be in-kind with the historic district. Yes, it would be nice to have a better intersection. There is bad flooding in that area now. QC still has to complete its presentation. Check and Mate HLifers. The plan is tear down 134 through 140 on Mountain Ave and 721 through 727 on Washington St. Scottso - I hope that they open it to public comments but I'll call next week to find out for sure. Our country roads could not handle the traffic which would be generated by this project. Conditional approval. You will never build your way to lower taxes. Like with Bergen tool, the residents there bought houses next to a light manufacturing zoned property....since then the town allowed the developer to change the zoning to mixed use....and anything would be allowed to come....that is not what those residents signed up for. Bells Lane and Water St are already out of kilter as to how they line up with Mountain Ave. Traffic is already acerbated due to the light at 5 corners. By badgering the architect and traffic experts on historic issues is not helping at all, in fact it's potentially hurting the validity of any other issues townspeople will have. I don't know who the current owner is but there should be fines and lawsuits imposed to get whomever it is to do something to fix it up, no? The site plan was approved at the April 17th zoning meeting with the resolution approved at the May 15th zoning meeting. Everyone complains about taxes but this backwards little town does very little to try to bring in solid commercial contributors to the bottom line. Building, 215 Stiger Street, Hackettstown, NJ 07840. I had heard it was shot down the first time. It would be nice if something happened to make things better, the what is the bugger. Mountain ave already too congested & proposed location too dangerous. Hackettstown Resident, And thanks for the added hazard at the 517 and wash street intersections. Pleeeeeeze. (1) It sounds like it's time to consider how positions are being posted. Quick Check has also spent a fair amount of money on pushing this through - at the historical society meeting they had several attorneys, an "expert" explaining why the houses should no longer be historical, architect plus a few more. 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